https://city.udn.com/3011/4920823
看起來學問大(3)
發表地點：政治社會》政治時事》天下縱橫談
發表時間：2013/02/01 18:52

本帖接續
https://city.udn.com/3011/4906217?raid=4920390#rep4920390
看起來學問大(2)

這裡有個年青人看起來學問很大，2013/01/29 21:51他說：「而古代西方自然哲學家基本上就是煉金術師,終極目標是創造出可以點石成金的賢者之石,在中國就是煉丹師,目標是創造出長生不老之藥」

我駁他，我說：「“古代西方自然哲學家基本上就是煉金術師”這句話完全不對。“natural philosophy”的內容主要與物理學有關，不是化學。」

這位學問家2013/01/30 21:00用藍色專門引出我「“natural philosophy”的內容主要與物理學有關，不是化學。」這句話，專門回駁如下：「古代是沒有特別分的,達文西這種科學藝術全才在古代是很常見的,牛頓這種物理學家寫煉金術文章也是很常見的」。我說的「“古代西方自然哲學家基本上就是煉金術師”這句話完全不對。」他完全沒搭理。

然後，這位連出五帖誨人不倦的青年學問家2013/01/31 14:17針對慎獨說：「錯誤要立即糾正」「這樣也是給他個警惕,要他寫文章前先用用腦子,先學會查資料」

好吧，我就來教教這位青年學問家“查資料”。

先google wiki。在一般知識，尤其是沒有什麼爭議性的，wiki的資料應該先查。至於什麼東西有爭議性什麼東西沒有爭議性，自己要判斷，或者自己要知道，也就是自己必須略識之無。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University

Medieval universities
Professors lectured on the books of Aristotle for logic, natural philosophy, and metaphysics; while Hippocrates, Galen, and Avicenna were used for medicine.

Early modern universities
Early Modern universities initially continued the curriculum and research of the Middle Ages: natural philosophy, logic, medicine, theology, mathematics, astronomy (and astrology), law, grammar and rhetoric. Aristotle was prevalent throughout the curriculum, while medicine also depended on Galen and Arabic scholarship.

以上的wiki資料告訴查找者1) 中古歐洲直到現代科學出現以前的大學裡傳授的“自然哲學”以阿里斯多德牌為名門正宗，2) 中古歐洲直到現代科學出現以前的大學裡並不傳授鍊金術。

大家都知道Aristotle是個大大大大大大大有名的古希臘哲學家，但他是不是也玩鍊金術？好吧，再google wiki：

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle

Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BC) was a Greek philosopher and polymath, … His writings cover many subjects, including physics, metaphysics, poetry, theater, music, logic, rhetoric, linguistics, politics, government, ethics, biology, and zoology.

Aristotle's views on the physical sciences profoundly shaped medieval scholarship, and their influence extended well into the Renaissance, although they were ultimately replaced by Newtonian physics.

以上的wiki資料告訴查找者1) 中古歐洲的學術研究裡作為後世的牛頓物理學的某種前導物的內容的主體乃是阿里斯多德傳下來的，2) 阿里斯多德業餘並不鍊金。

為了確定“阿里斯多德業餘並不鍊金”這一點，在這個wiki頁面上輸入alchemy以及alchemist，查找結果可以告訴我們“阿里斯多德業餘似乎並不鍊金”。

下一步，查查“自然哲學”與現代物理學和現代化學的關係，還是google wiki：

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosophy

At older universities, long-established Chairs of Natural Philosophy are nowadays occupied mainly by physics professors.

Some examples of the application of the term "natural philosophy" to what we today would call "natural science" are Isaac Newton's 1687 scientific treatise, which is known as The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy and Lord Kelvin and Peter Guthrie Tait's 1867 treatise called Treatise on Natural Philosophy which helped define much of modern physics.

In the 14th and 15th centuries, natural philosophy referred to what is now physical science. From the mid-19th century, when it became increasingly unusual for scientists to contribute to both physics and chemistry, it just meant physics, and is still used in that sense in degree titles at the University of Oxford.

Martin Heidegger observes that Aristotle was the originator of conception of nature that prevailed in the Middle Ages into the modern era:
The Physics is a lecture in which he seeks to determine beings that arise on their own, τ? φ?σει ?ντα, with regard to their being. Aristotelian "physics" is different from what we mean today by this word. Aristotle's "physics" is philosophy, whereas modern physics is a positive science that presupposes a philosophy… Without Aristotle's Physics there would have been no Galileo.

以上的wiki資料告訴查找者1) 沒有阿里斯多德的“物理思想/物理哲學”恐怕就沒有伽利略，2) 在文藝復興時期“natural philosophy”指的是現在叫做“physical science”的東西，3) 十九世紀中葉現代物理學與現代化學分途之後“natural philosophy”專指現代物理學。

那麼現代化學和鍊金術呢？chemistry和alchemy與natural philosophy之間的關係到底是怎麼樣的？可以在這個wiki頁面上輸入“chem”，查到的東西(除了前面已經引出的之外)都與波義耳有關：

The late 17th century natural philosopher Robert Boyle wrote a seminal work on the distinction between physics and metaphysics called, …, as well as The Skeptical Chymist, after which the modern science of chemistry is named, (as distinct from proto-scientific studies of alchemy). These works of natural philosophy …

現在可以去查“鍊金術”：

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy

Like the Greeks before him, Bacon acknowledged the division of alchemy into the practical and theoretical. He noted that the theoretical lay outside the scope of Aristotle, the natural philosophers, and all Latin writers of his time. The practical however, confirmed the theoretical through experiment, and Bacon advocated its uses in natural science and medicine.

During the 17th century, practical alchemy started to disapper in favor of its younger offshoot chemistry, as it was renamed by Robert Boyle, the "father of modern chemistry". In his book, The Skeptical Chymist, Boyle attacked Paracelsus and the natural philosophy of Aristotle, which was taught at universities. However, Boyle's biographers, in their emphasis that he laid the foundations of modern chemistry, neglect how steadily he clung to the scholastic sciences and to alchemy, in theory, practice and doctrine. The decline of alchemy continued in the 18th century with the birth of modern chemistry, …

以上的wiki資料告訴查找者1) 鍊金術的理論部份不在阿里斯多德的學術思考之內，也不在從中古到科學革命前夕的歐洲的自然哲學家的學術思考之內，2) 鍊金術的實作部份曾經為現代化學的出現提供基礎。

現在可以進一步在網上查“歐洲的鍊金術”與“歐洲的哲學”的關係：

http://spiritualalchemy.iwarp.com/photo2.html
Alchemy Defined
The Philosophy of Alchemy
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Version 1.0, London: Routledge

In the Western world alchemy presented itself at its advent as a sacred art. But when, after a long detour via Byzantium and Islamic culture, it came back again to Europe in the twelfth century, adepts designated themselves philosophers. Since then alchemy has confronted natural philosophy for several centuries.

以上的資料告訴查找者1)“歐洲的鍊金術”本來是一種神祕之術，2)“歐洲的鍊金術”與“歐洲的自然哲學”從十二世紀開始在歐洲同時存在了幾百年。

這位青年學問家2013/01/29 21:51說：「古代西方自然哲學家基本上就是煉金術師」，我只能說這個誨人不倦的好人好像連上網查wiki資料都不會。

我用「“natural philosophy”的內容主要與物理學有關，不是化學。」這句話駁他，事實上我這句話已經算是歐洲科學史的常識了，太基本了，這位青年學問家連發五帖悠悠閒閒地以科學史指教別人，卻連歐洲科學史的入門基礎都不及格，實在是太難看了。

牛頓的鍊金術著作成為這位青年學問家反駁我「“natural philosophy”的內容主要與物理學有關，不是化學。」這句話的依據之一，他說：「牛頓這種物理學家寫煉金術文章也是很常見的」，他這是蓄意剝掉了所有的科學史研究者在談到牛頓的鍊金術著作的時候都必定會大談特談的當時在科學家(指現代科學的從事者)之間非常盛行的一種文化思潮，藉以說事。科學實驗“把自然拿來測試”，大家可以看到自然的力量如何如何按著規律在作用，這很激動人心，很多人開始想到影響自然、改變自然、甚至控制自然這些事，科學家自己不例外，因為他需要尋找或解釋開始或者創造或者推動這個物理世界(宇宙為其最大者)的原始物質或者第一因。牛頓搞出了他的力學原理，他同時是個虔敬的基督徒，他也有一些關於鍊金術的理論著作，這些都是大天才牛頓想要瞭解自然世界的綜合努力的內容。牛頓鑽研鍊金術理論，這一點也不奇怪，那時候很多科學家(指現代科學的從事者)迷魔術，迷占星術，這是歐洲十七世紀的Scientific Revolution年代的一道特殊風景，先前沒有，後來迅速消失，這位青年學問家寫了「牛頓這種物理學家寫煉金術文章也是很常見的」這句話來駁我所說的「“natural philosophy”的內容主要與物理學有關，不是化學。」這句話，這實在太差勁了。

這位誨人不倦的學問家被我痛打了還不覺得痛，還在2013/01/31 14:17大模大樣地針對慎獨說：「錯誤要立即糾正」「這樣也是給他個警惕,要他寫文章前先用用腦子,先學會查資料」，事實是他不但簡單的入門知識不及格，網上的基本資料好像也不會查，卻羽扇綸巾，窮辯瞎辯胡扯爛扯，真是太不像話了。