主持人：是。我想淨空法師在這個世界上所做出的一些示範，如果用傳統文化達到這個社會的和諧，我想他給我們一個很好，一種拋磚引玉的一個作用，難怪世界各地都有很多人要向淨空法師來取經。

Anchor:  O.K.  I think V.M. Chin Kung has demonstrated to the world that traditional culture can harmonize a society.  I think he has given us a very good [example]; it has the effect of “throwing a brick to entice a piece of jade.”  No wonder people from all over the world want to learn from the master.

淨空法師：不客氣。

V.M. Chin Kung:  All are welcome.

主持人：稍後回來，我們再繼續請淨空法師為我們開示。我們稍後見。

Anchor:  We will back shortly.  We will bequest V.M. Chin Kung to continue with his explanation.  See you shortly.

歡 迎回來。很多人都說心浮氣躁的話，這個社會就會出現很多大災難；大災難一出現，更多人是用以暴制暴的方式來解決，但是這是一個好方法嗎？我們現場就有一位 媒體人，常常在報章上、在媒體上，憂心忡忡的表達了他對社會的一些看法，他就是玉林。我們想請玉林來提出你的一些疑問，由我們淨空法師來做開示。玉林請。

Anchor:  Welcome back.  Many people have commented that disturbed minds and agitated spirits will cause many great catastrophes to happen in the society.  Once disasters occur, more people will use violence to suppress violence.  But is it a good solution?  We have with us today a media person, who has often apprehensively expressed his social observation in newspapers and other media.  That person is Yulin.  We would like to have Yulin to ask his questions for V. M. Chin Kung to elucidate.  Yulin, please.

玉林：延續法師剛才談的教育問題，連佛陀都說眾生難調難馴，我不曉得法師對眾生的這個心愈來愈浮躁，治安愈來愈不好，師父你的看法是什麼？你覺得治亂世用重典，這個適合於現在社會嗎？

Yulin:  To continue with the Master’s talk on the problems of education, even the Buddha had stated that the [minds of] sentient beings are difficult to tame.  I would like to know, with respect to the escalation of the agitation of human minds and social crimes, what is your view on this, Master?  Do you feel the saying “to govern in troublesome times requires heavy punishment” is appropriate for Today’s society?

淨空法師：這是一個很嚴肅的問題，也是非常困難的問題。因為大家把傳統東西丟的時間太久了，不但我們沒有看到，現在連聽都沒聽到過，所以提到傳統非常陌生。這是一個令人很難想像的這樁事情。做，一定要做，做總比不做好。

V.M. Chin Kung:  This is a very serious question and a very difficult problem.   It is caused by our abandonment of the traditional ways.  We have abandoned the traditional ways for such a long time, even people of our generation have not seen them, people nowadays have never even heard of them.  So traditional ways are not something people are familiar with.  This is something beyond our imagination.  But we must promote it.  It is much better to do something than not at all.

因 為中國傳統教育，它是從母親懷孕的時候開始教的，叫胎教；紮根教育，它是在出生之後一千天，就是三歲。所以古成語裡頭有所謂「三歲看八十」。到三歲的時 候，他就接受到很好的教育，這不是教他念東西，是父母做出榜樣給他看。所以《弟子規》不是教小孩的，《弟子規》是從前舊的那個傳統家庭，大家庭，從上到 下，每個人都要做到的，那是家庭規矩。

According to Chinese tradition, education of children starts from pregnancy, the so called “embryonic education.”  It is a “Root Education” that continues for one thousand days after the baby is born.  From this [tradition] comes the ancient proverb “how one is at three, how one will be at eighty.”  At age three, [traditional] children have already received very good education.  It is not the recitation of books, but a learning from the exemplary conducts of the parents.  Therefore, Di Zi Gui is not just for children, it is a code of conduct for the traditional family in ancient times, for the whole clan, from top to bottom, every member of the clan must follow.  It is family rules.

一個大家庭，三、四百人生活在一起，你沒有規矩不就亂掉了嗎？所以，小孩他從小一出生，他就看到他父親、母親，怎麼樣孝順他的父母，他從這裡學會的，所以說做給他看的。不但是父母做給他看，每個人所作所為他都看到，都是那麼樣的守禮、守規矩。所以這個是根深蒂固。

In a clannish family, three to four hundred people live together.  Without family rules, the clan will be chaotic.  Thus, children, from birth, see how their mother and father perform filial piety to grandparents, and learn from such a paradigm.  So, [parents] act for children to see [and do].  The children not only see how the parents act, but they also see the conducts of all the relatives, [and see that they] all have such good manners, [and] following the rules of the family.  Therefore, the Root Education is deeply instilled [in a child at 3 and will still affect them at age 80].

今 天大家庭沒有了，都是小家庭，小家庭小孩沒有看到父母孝順父母，他怎麼學法？他沒有模樣。你跟他講，他不懂，他要看到才算數，難就難在此地。所以今天最好 的是什麼？孤兒，國家能收養一批孤兒，從孤兒裡面教好教。為什麼？小孩他沒有依靠，他也沒有人寵愛他，那個小孩聽話。我看到慧禮法師在非洲養了三千孤兒， 教得很好，個個《弟子規》《三字經》都能背得滾瓜爛熟的，來表演給我看。我說行，我說非洲這些小黑人，從這麼小的時候，三、四歲開始接受中國傳統文化，將 來非洲人可以統治全世界，會給世界帶來安定和諧。

Today, clannish families disappeared.  We only have nucleus families.  Children in a nucleus family cannot see parents performing filial piety.  How can they learn then?  They have no role model.  Children must see in order to grasp the concept.  They would not understand just by your saying so whereas lies the difficulty.  So what is the best way [to start root education] nowadays? [It may be best to start with] orphans.  A country can have an orphanage.  It is much easier to teach them.  Why?  Orphans have no one to rely on, no one to pamper them.  They will listen and behave.  I observed this from V.M. Hui Li.  He had raised three thousand orphans in Africa and taught them well.  Every one of them memorized Di Zi Gui and Sutra of Tri-Stanzas.  They performed in front of me, reciting both books without missing a single word.  I believe it can be done.  These African children, accepted traditional Chinese culture at such a young age, 3 or 4 years old.  They will be able to lead the whole world in the future to bring peace and harmony to the World.

今 天，所以我們講，就是要老師，老師自己要真正做到。最好還要有個實驗點，講完之後不相信，你去看。國家有個小區，就是有個小鎮，或者有個小城市，這個城市 的人統統都照這樣做，建立一個新的城市都可以，沒有做到的不要來，做到的我們喜歡，都住在一起。這樣就是他有個榜樣，就像湯池做個樣子，聯合國的人來看， 歡迎來看，我們真做到了，我們不是說的，他才會相信，才能建立信心。所以除了教，在媒體上講解，還要有個實驗點，做出來給大家看，全國人信心起來了。所以 今天把信心救起來就有救了，信心危機比什麼都嚴重。

Today, as we mentioned before, we need teachers, teachers who can really practice what they teach.  It is best that we also have a model city so that people who do not believe us can actually see its realization.  [We only need] a small community in a country, a small town or city, even building a new city where all the townspeople do so.    We welcome all who can perform [Di Zi Gui], but not those who cannot.  All such people live together and set up a model city, like Tangchi.  Representatives from UNESCO can come and all are welcome to see that we truly have done so, that we are not just saying so.  People will then believe and have faith [in traditional culture].  To conclude, besides teaching, lectures in the media and a model city are needed to show people that it can be done so that the whole country will have faith.  Once we have helped people rebuild faith, the world can be saved.  The crisis of lack of faith is more serious [than any catastrophe].

主持人：是，要達到一個讓這社會的信心危機完全解除，的確還有很多很多的步驟。

Anchor:  Yes, to establish a society that is totally without the crisis of lack of faith, indeed, requires many stages.

淨空法師：對。

V.M. Chin Kung:  Yes.

主持人：這一點在社會，對社會觀察非常透析的志峰，在這方面有什麼要向我們大師請教的？

Anchor:  This point, this social phenomenon, Zhifung, an acute social observer and analyst, do you have any questions for our Master on this respect?

藍 志峰：大師您好。其實我們都知道，政治是治理眾人的這個事情，而且法師的足跡也遍布歐洲多個國家，以及亞洲多個國家。其實師父綜合每個國家的治理眾人的制 度都不同，特別是當朝野之間的競爭非常激烈的時候，就會出現很多混亂的，亂相的情況出現。其實人民在當前這種不穩定的情況之下，應該怎麼樣去達到一個明智 的決定，以及如何在治理眾人的這個過程當中，扮演重要的一個角色？

Zhifung Lan:  Greetings, Master.  Actually we all know that politics is a matter of governing people.  Master has travelled many European and Asian countries.  Master has summarized the different political systems of different governments and the competition between the ruling party and the non-ruling parties.  Especially, when such competition becomes very severe, there will be chaos and social upheaval.  How should the people, facing such instability, achieve a wise consensus, and play an important role in the process of political governing?

淨 空法師：對，這個問題是個大問題，不是幾句話能夠解決的。歸根結柢來說，都是教育出了問題。所以我曾經，也是上一次在馬來西亞，跟華校校長們談話的時候， 那一次來了有四百多個校長、老師，我提出了十個教學為先。除了教學之外，沒有第二個辦法。但是教學的時候，一定要把倫理、道德、因果、宗教，統統揉合在一 起。而且心量要大、眼光要遠，我們要全世界的，不分任何族群、任何宗教，它有好的東西我們統統攝取。

V.M. Chin Kung:  Yes.  Your question is a big one and cannot be answered in a few words.  To unravel the tangle, problematic education is still the cause.  I have mentioned, the last time I visited Malaysia, in a meeting with the principals of Chinese school, more than four hundred principals and teachers attended that meeting, I proposed ten (categories/stages of?) “education is the first priority.”  Besides education, there is no other solution.  But when teaching, [the curriculum] must amalgamate morals, ethical human relations, the law of cause and effect, and religious education.  In addition, we must have a broad mind and with great vision.  We must be global, without any discrimination of any race or religion, but to integrate all the good things.

藍志峰：現在的情況就是，很多人都把這個目光跟視野放得很短，我們都知道說教育是長遠的。

Zhifung Lan:  The current situation is that the majority of the people have tunnel vision, but we all know that education is for the long-term.

淨空法師：沒錯。

V.M. Chin Kung:  That’s right.

藍志峰：但是如何在這個長遠跟短期的利益當中做出一個平衡，做出一個取捨？

Zhifung Lan:  But how do we find a balance between long-term and short-term goals, to make the right choice?

淨空法師：你看的要遠，但是你做的要從最近的地方做，你才能生效果。所以最有效的方法，就是利用電視。

V.M. Chin Kung:  You must see far [into the future], but to be effective, you have to start right here [with what you have right now].  So the most effective way is to use television.

主持人：就像現在這樣。

Anchor:  Just like right now.

淨空法師：對。電視你能夠說是每天都來教學，每天都跟大家上課，二十四小時不中斷，隨時他都能聽得到。而且這個向全世界播放，不但自己國家人得利益，全世界人都得利益。不教不行。

V.M. Chin Kung:  Yes.  Put it this way, we can use television to educate people, to learn together every day, 24 hours nonstop.  Viewers can hear anywhere at any time.  We need to broadcast to the whole world, so the whole world can benefit, not just for the benefit of one’s own country.  Without educate, all is futile.

譬如說馬哈迪長老，他曾經問我一個問題，就是恐怖分子，人家提到恐怖分子就好像跟回教掛上鉤，他說那是極少數極少數的敗類，搞得我們是頭痛得不得了，他問這個事情怎麼解決。

For example, the Elder Mahathir once asked me a question about terrorists.  Whenever people mention terrorists, they are linked to Muslims.  He commented that they are just a few degenerates [Muslims] but this [stereotype] is very difficult to handle like a migraine headache.  He wants to know how to solve this situation.

我 說這個事情不難解決，如果《古蘭經》你要把它講得清楚、講得明白，你找二、三個講得好的，你在電視上天天廣播，讓大家都懂得《古蘭》，回教徒就不會受那些 極端分子迷惑，被他們利用。被他們利用，就是因為你很虔誠的回教徒，你對於《古蘭》了解得不多，所以他就會用這個空隙來找你，你就被他吸引去了。你對於經 典了解得透徹，對於神的、真主的旨意完全清楚，你怎麼會受他欺騙？這不可能。所以宗教要回歸教育。

I told him that it is not difficult to solve.  I suggested that he must expound the Qur’an clearly, [so that it is] easy to understand.  If you can find two or three who can do so, you can broadcast such sermons everyday on television, so that everyone understands the Qur’an.  Thus, Muslims will not be deluded and exploited by those extremists.  The reason those terrorists can exploit them is because the devout Muslims do not understand the Qur’an.  The terrorists use this schism to coerce them.  Once they fully understand the Qur’an and truly understand the revelation of God, the will of Allah, how could they be deceived?  It is not possible.  Therefore, all religion must return to education. 

宗 教這兩個字，如果用中國文字來解釋，是非常有意義的。中國這個宗有三個意思，主要的、重要的、尊崇的，三個意思；教，教育、教學、教化。連起來，那就是人 類最主要的教育、最重要的教學、最尊崇的教化。這是全世界每一個宗教都願意接受，我跟他們講，好！大家都願意接受。所以宗教要團結，宗教要互相學習，宗教 裡頭的矛盾才全部化解。

“Zong Giou,” [roughly translated as religion,] these two words have great significance in Chinese etymology.  In Chinese, “Zong” has three meanings: major, important, venerable.  Giou means to teach, education, educate and learn, educate and transform.  Combining these meanings, “Zong Giou” means the major education of people, the most important teaching and learning, and the most venerable education and transformation.  This Chinese interpretation of “religion,” explained as such, is accepted willing by every religion in the world.  I said [to the religious leaders] since all are willing to accept this interpretation, all religions must unit and learn from each other; thus, the conflicts among religions can be completely reconciled.

主持人：是，的確是，因為宗教其實也是教育的一種方式。

Anchor:  Yes.  Indeed, yes.  Religion actually is one of the ways of education.

淨空法師：對，好的一種。

V.M. Chin Kung:  That’s right, one of the best.