====樂聖貝多芬信基督教嗎?

網路上基督徒一直傳播一些名人信基督教的訊息，如樂聖貝多芬。

基督信仰對藝術的影響(上） - 非凡
http://www.360doc.com/content/09/1113/12/71837_8940092.shtml
......聽著貝多芬的《歡樂頌》，人們一定很難想像他原本是一個多麼悲慘的人：父親是酒鬼，母親死於肺病，幼小的貝多芬染上天花，導致視力模糊和耳聾，幾次向他所愛的人求婚都被拒絕。他說：我孤身一人，只有耶穌與我親近，在他那裡，我毫無懼怕....


秋雨之福的部落格
哈利路亞～～
http://big5.ifeng.com/gate/big5/blog.ifeng.com/article/4306923.html
.....譜寫第九交響曲的大音樂家貝多芬、 發現新大陸的著名探險家哥倫布等， 他們均為相信天主（上帝）的基督徒
參《世界名人宗教觀》.....
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對於這類的扯淡文章，大部份讀者都易被矇騙，現讓我們揭發其偽。


約翰.麥金農·羅伯遜(J. M. Robertson)（ 1856年11月14日 - 1933年1月5日），是一位，倡導理性主義和世俗主義多產的新聞記者和英國東北部泰恩賽德郡選出的自由派國會議員，他指出貝多芬沒有固定宗教，但信的是古代三個泛神論信仰表達書:『我就是這，這總是我，過去如是，未來也是』『人總是單獨一個，及對單獨的他，做任何事總還要靠自已』
他的朋友Moscheles 在改編菲岱里奧Fidelio這歌劇時寫上~『在神的幫助下』，但貝多芬卻改為『喔，人助自助』
George Macfarren爵士在帝國通用傳記辭典裡論貝多芬，針對他著名的『C大調彌撒曲』說，他一位自由思想家，很少是正統思想家的進行 。

George Grove,喬治·格羅夫爵士在『音樂與音樂家辭典』寫著，他沒有通常的宗教，聖經也不曾在他喜愛的書中出現。

曾當過天主教神父後來為無神論者的英國人
約瑟夫·麥凱布(Joseph McCabe)斷言說貝多芬雖是天主教出身，但退出教會，是教會信條的背叛者，他認同歌德的泛神論主張。

另一著名的無神論者，英國的尼古拉斯·沃爾特
(Nicolas Hardy Walter)說貝多芬是泛神論信徒，不是基督徒。

貝多芬將死時，他被天主教的朋友所強迫，請來一位神父幫他作臨終聖禮(是許多華人過去生活在歐美國家，臨死前也會請教會舉行，因若不如此，根本找不到墓地可葬，墓地都是教會在經營的)，但當神父離開後，他用古羅馬劇場的拉丁語說:「我的朋友請大家鼓掌吧，這齣喜劇終於結束了; 讓我們做正確的事，向最高處努力，對上蒼給我們的禮物要充份發揮，不要停止學習」

http://barryleroux.blogspot.tw/2012/12/atheists-worldwide-j.html

J. M. Robertson points out that Beethoven had no formal religion but believed in three ancient, pantheistic formulas: "I am that which is." "I am all that is, that was, that shall be"; and "He is alone by Himself, and to Him alone do all things owe their being."
When his friend Moscheles at the end of his arrangement of Fidelio (1805) wrote, "Fine, with God's help," Beethoven added, "O man, help t
hyself."
Sir George Macfarren, writing of Beethoven in the Imperial Dictionary of Universal Biography, speaks of him as a "free thinker," saying the remarkable Mass in C "might scarcely have proceeded from an entirely orthodox thinker."
Sir George Grove, in his Dictionary of Music and Musicians, wrote, "Formal religion he apparently had none" and "the Bible does not appear to have been one of his favorite books."
Joseph McCabe flatly said that Beethoven, reared a Catholic, quit the Church, was an apostate from their creed, and adopted Goethe's pantheism. Agreeing, Nicolas Walter labels Beethoven a pantheist, not a Christian.
When Beethoven was dying, he yielded to the pressure of Catholic friends and let a priest administer his sacraments. But when the priest left the room, Beethoven said, in the Latin words of the ancient Roman theater, "Applaud, my friends, the comedy is over."
"Then let us all do what is right, strive with all our might toward the unattainable, develop as fully as we can the gifts God has given us, and never stop learning."
Ludwig van Beethoven (composer and pianist, he remains one of the most famous and influential of all composers)
J. M. Robertson points out that Beethoven had no formal religion but believed in three ancient, pantheistic formulas: "I am that which is." "I am all that is, that was, that shall be"; and "He is alone by Himself, and to Him alone do all things owe their being." When his friend Moscheles at the end of his arrangement of Fidelio (1805) wrote, "Fine, with God's help," Beethoven added, "O man, help thyself." Sir George Macfarren, writing of Beethoven in the Imperial Dictionary of Universal Biography, speaks of him as a "free thinker," saying the remarkable Mass in C "might scarcely have proceeded from an entirely orthodox thinker." Sir George Grove, in his Dictionary of Music and Musicians, wrote, "Formal religion he apparently had none" and "the Bible does not appear to have been one of his favorite books." Joseph McCabe flatly said that Beethoven, reared a Catholic, quit the Church, was an apostate from their creed, and adopted Goethe's pantheism. Agreeing, Nicolas Walter labels Beethoven a pantheist, not a Christian. When Beethoven was dying, he yielded to the pressure of Catholic friends and let a priest administer his sacraments. But when the priest left the room, Beethoven said, in the Latin words of the ancient Roman theater, "Applaud, my friends, the comedy is over." "Then let us all do what is right, strive with all our might toward the unattainable, develop as fully as we can the gifts God has given us, and never stop learning." Ludwig van Beethoven (composer and pianist, he remains one of the most famous and influential of all composers)======-----------

-增補

貝多芬是泛神論

他(出生第二天)曾受洗，但顯然從未進教堂，但曾被引述他贊同歌德的泛神論

He was baptised Catholic. However, apparently he never attended church and was quoted expressing some sympathy with Goethe's pantheism.
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_van_...
http://www.theinfidels.or


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貝多芬酗酒曾自稱為希臘的酒神

音樂是較智慧與哲學更高級的啟示錄，就像新出產的酒，而我是為人類擠壓榮華酒與用心靈品飲的希臘酒神巴克斯 Bacchus

貝多芬
Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy, it is the wine of a new procreation, and I am Bacchus who presses out this glorious wine for men and makes them drunk with the spirit.
http://www.theinfidels.org/zunb-beethoven.htm

-- Ludwig van Beethoven
--------------------------------------

1812年他寫信給某一神秘愛人的信中寫著

he Immortal Beloved (German " Unsterbliche Geliebte ") is the mysterious addressee of a love letter which composer Ludwig van Beethoven wrote on 6–7 July 1812 in Teplitz

....
my everything,，as I for you, the rest is up to the Gods,. –


your faithful ludwig -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Beloved維基百科

我的一切都是為了你，其他的就看眾神決定了

您忠實的路德維希貝多芬

可見貝多芬是泛神論者
================





>>>>>>貝多芬的日記，信件和對話本（耳聾後用來和別人溝通）有許多地方虔誠地提到神，是堅定信仰的有 力證據。他以自己特有的確信寫道:「不是原子的偶然碰撞形成了這個世界，如果宇宙的構造反映出秧序的美麗，那麼必定有位創造者:神。

評

我查了一下貝多芬在1816年日記，
Beethoven's letters貝多芬全部的文稿信件
https://archive.org/details/beethovensletter01beet

他寫著

"It was not the fortuitous meeting of the chordal atoms that made the world; if order and beauty are reflected in the constitution of the universe, then there is a God."
1816年日記
不是偶然集合這些(音樂)和弦片斷的世界，假如(和弦)秩序與美，在宇宙(或世界)結構中被反映，那這裡的秩序與美就是一個神。

但這愛造假的基督徒大作文字成

「不是原子的偶然碰撞形成了這個世界，如果宇宙的構造反映出秧序的美麗，那麼必定有位創造者:神。」

~~原文中的和弦chordal不見了，秩序與美變成「秧序的美麗」，且又自行添加一個創造者』



>>>>」 他和神的關係非常個人，在生活中感到不平時他向神尋求答案:「因此，我將平靜地忍受一切不合理，並把信心放在你永恆的良善上。哦，我的神，在你自有永有的 神裡面，我的靈在歡唱，你是我的盤石、我的光、我永遠的信任。」在1815年，他甚至表示希望成為一小教堂的作曲家，以求安寧和滿足，在那兒他將把作品獻 給「永恆的神的榮耀。」 在他的日記中記錄著他熱烈的禱告:「無論怎樣，讓我轉向他並在創作中結出纍纍的碩果。」1810年，他向一好友坦白自己近乎孩氣的信心。他寫道:「我沒有 朋友，必須獨自生活。然而我知道神比其它人更親近我。我一點也不怕他，我總是能認識和理解他。」貝多芬寫給他的朋友魯道夫大公爵的信時說:「我要比其它人 更親近神，並且在人類中彰顯他的榮耀，沒有什麼比這更棒了。」

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這些都是偽造添加的
Beethoven's letters貝多芬的文稿信件寫到1816年
https://archive.org/details/beethovensletter01beet
查一下都不見這些話
贊 回應
acewang3005
acewang3005 2014-03-01 17:45:17

>>>>>
貝多芬瞭解他屬天的任務，曾在遺囑裡寫道：「直到完成上帝要我做的，否則我不可能離開這世界。」在日記裡一個簡短的禱告道出他的心聲：「不管如何，讓我倚靠你而結滿豐盛果實。」

=======
按
貝多芬的遺囑全文在此，那來以下的鬼話:「直到完成上帝要我做的，否則我不可能離開這世界。」

http://www.nyu.edu/classes/gilbert/classic/heiligenstadt.html

E85.2073: Music Literature: The Classical Period
Beethoven's Heiligenstädt Testament, 1802