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BinH
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2009/12/02 11:15

（Continued）
One of the big problems with Confucianism as a governing philosophy was its insistence that man is by nature good, and therefore educable and perfectible. The individual should police himself in order to become more virtuous. An admirable goal, but human nature being what it is, the lack of external check and balances on power led to the gradual corruption of dynasties all through history, down to today. The Communist Party is rotten to the core with corruption, but of course it can do nothing about it, because if it instituted any independent checks and balances, it would lose its monopoly on power....
With the power of the church reduced and Imperial Confucianism in place, there remained just one problem group of people who might try to cramp the style of the emperor and his Confucian elite: the aristocracy themselves.....The emperor and his mandarins destroyed the aristocracy.....

這史無前例，兩千多年的大王朝，是福是禍？看法因人而異吧。

據一位大陸經濟學者言，舊中國的財富通通搜刮到朝廷，鞏固天威去了。

byebye(lajulan) 於 2009/12/02 13:09 回覆：

正在想你會有什麼回應,結果...雖然覺得心痛,但應該不出所料,這些(只懂皮毛)白人觀點的白色洗腦,被留學生吸收的最完全. 但是還有一些較能公正看事情而不暢銷的漢學家,並不是這樣看法,有機會找出他們的書時,再告訴你.其實資料很多,但很零碎,得花時間去找

事實上,人類的political system 或者任何system 幾千年來並沒有進步,反而退步了--人們越來越貪婪,破壞性越大,戰爭越多,創造性越低....現代的進步,只是科技和物質,而不是智慧. 現在世界飢餓的人口,可能創歷史新高

You are right. Roman controlled their empire with force. They were barbarian. 看看他們的人獸劇場,那種殘忍的全民娛樂,簡直...After conquering Egypt, which was occupied by Greece, they adopted some culture from Egypt and Greece. Later, they were conquered by even more barbarian people, Germanic tribes, and the result was the European Dark Age, lasting a thousand year.

After European Renaissance, the whole world has gone through another kind of Dark Age. Africa continent was raped by white power. America and Australia continents were occupied. India Peninsula and other areas in Asia were colonized. Two big wars were fought in Europe.

相對而言,中國在過去兩千年比歐洲人過的和平安定日子多得很多很多.秦始皇有其功亦有其過,你的指控,人人同意,所以他的帝國只有十五年.

儒家雖然不盡理想,但比起歐洲人的槍砲,還是比較文明一些.歐洲是不毛之地,沒有什麼資源,他們能過著富庶繁榮的生活,是世界上其它國家人民付出的代價,所以有人說,不是Northern countries(先進富國)在幫助 Southern countries(第三世界國家),而是Southern countries在滋養Northern countries.

兩千多年的大王朝，是福是禍？過去比起世界上大部分的地方,是幸運多了,將來則有待現在人的努力. TIME文章上所說的五點美國人該學的,只是枝節的例子,不是主幹。美國兩百年的歷史要能通過兩千年的考驗,需要加強主幹—哲學思考及價值理念, 靠消費立國,天理不容。

BinH
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2009/12/02 11:13

正好讀完 China Road by Rob Gifford，提到西方人的觀點看兩千多年的大王朝（p.102 - p.107)，給你參考。

I have to say I find this idea rather scary, that two thousand years of history might have done nothing to change the political system of a country. Imagine, a Europe today where the Roman Empire had never fallen, that still covered an area from England to North Africa and the Middle East and was run by on man based in Rome, backed by a large army.......
Qin Shihuang created a "country" that needed a strong man at the top in order to hold it togetheer, and that requirement precluded any constraints on his power. On top of that, he burned all the books....killed the scholars....thus setting another precedent for how to deal with anyone who challenged the power of the ruler....
The second reason that restraints upon the power of the Chinese state never developed is more of a philosophical one that emerged during the Han dynasty....the Han took elements of Qin's Legalism, necessary for control, and added an ideology that could legitimize the power of the state. The ideology was Confucianism....an early version of speaking softly but carrying a large stick....

byebye(lajulan) 於 2009/12/02 13:45 回覆：
要改進儒家思想,要向上學習,而不是向下學習. 向上學習的意思是,要懂得論語真正在說些什麼,林明華先生用非常先進的古埃及神學解讀向下學習的意思是指學習歐美的物質主義,讓文化往基本的欲求及感官刺激發展

BinH
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2009/11/28 06:59
“As far as I know, these spiritual achievements realizing the layers of existence of human being by going inwards are not complete in the period of last 2000+ years.” Incorrect expression。 “As far as I know, these spiritual achievements realizing the layers of existence of human being by going inwards were complete before／around 2000 years ago.” That is what I meant。

byebye(lajulan) 於 2009/11/29 01:33 回覆：
Actually, Ancient Egyption understood the meaning/reality of existence at least 7000 years ago.

BinH
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2009/11/28 06:16

I did not deny the rich tradition of humanity in the East, I also know the height of spiritual growth of divinity in India, China (I don't know Egypt that much). Probably these old civilizations had reached the highest point in humanity by looking for infinity, inevitably they were falling one after another. But no matter what civilization, they have to invent themselves continuously in all aspects, otherwise becomes 一攤死水，臭不可聞。

As far as I know, these spiritual achievements realizing the layers of existence of human being by going inwards are not complete in the period of last 2000+ years. It's not even the credit for any government within that period in China (before/around 2000 years ago, people in that land do not even have any concept called China/Chinese). Again, my question is, what on earth Chinese should be proud of the experience governing a big country for 2000+ years as you mentioned.

由左腦理性發展出來的工具、武器、制度，也是一條不歸路，嚴重地壓抑扼殺了大大大多數人生命本身的發展成長。安身立命，西方人的解釋等同於'等待被屠宰'。is your word. 科技嚴重落後的中國，也沒有什麼選擇。

此話題甚長， looking forward 你一點一滴拋出的不同的觀點和思考模式.

byebye(lajulan) 於 2009/11/29 01:29 回覆：

Thank you for your response. Right after the turkey day, I feel that this discussion is more nutritious than any feast。
I agree with you that old Eastern Culture is not all perfect in many aspects. Though there is a lot of room to improve, we still can be proud of what we have accomplished, and that is more than what we were told.
在劉邦之後、清嘉慶之前，中國一直都是世界上最大最富的國家，這是不爭的事實。世界上找不到第二個國家，有兩千多年的大王朝。大部分的地方都還是城邦國家時，中國已經有複雜的體系統治龐大的國家。雖然羅馬及中東也有過大帝國，但都是短暫出現後又分崩離析，沒有持續下來。羅馬帝國敗落之後，歐洲還要經歷長達近一千年的黑暗時期，至少有一百萬個女人被當成巫婆，活活被燒死，可想見其落後的程度吧。
從十六世紀至今，歐美人的強大崛起，靠的是他們的武器及勇於殺人，與鄭和下西洋＂發揚天威＂的精神及做法大大不同。這種靠槍奪及佔領的大國，能維持多久，歷史上沒出現過。雖然中國也曾經分分合合，但其系統一直是連貫，也就是有短期的政爭，而終究能維持一個完整的政體及文化，這是很值得只有兩百年歷史的美國研究學習的。這種經驗歐洲沒有，上個星期他們才產生第一個歐盟總統，將來會如何發展，全世界拭目以待。
中國是一個代號，就像你在部落格上稱為＂Indigo＂一樣，雖然在工作上或家庭裡有不同的稱呼，但都代表同一個身體及靈魂。中國文化（稱漢、唐、宋文化亦可）有許多需要改進的地方，這是不可否認的。但是，只有知道自己的過去，才能只到現今為甚麼會這樣，也才能看到將來要往何處去。一個人的成長是如此，一個國家及一個文化亦是如此,你說是嗎?

BinH
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2009/11/28 01:56

從成堆的歷史灰燼中，還原被扭曲的真相，一定困難重重。

'China has experience of governing a big country for 2000+ years" is simply a fact。可又有甚麼了不起的政治經濟成就。奴化人思想的歷史經驗，恐怕也長達兩千年吧。帝王將相，上上下下，打打殺殺，原地打轉，民不聊生，總不能通通歸因於白色洗腦吧。如此根深地固的奴化傳統，反倒幫了白色洗腦不少大忙。也許，我的認識也是出於承傳断落、文化混亂後的胡言亂語。

我們的歷史教育有多失敗，那又有哪樣教育是成功的？找回断落前的歷史（找得回嗎？），歷史的記憶就能重新洗牌，黃種人的自信就能提高？

部落格逛到一篇文章，一位三十上下的工程師網友所寫，雖然說的是台灣的文化意象。那可不是我在那個年齡所想，決定拋下台灣的一切，飄來飄去，飄來飄去。。。。
http://blog.udn.com/markscat/471192

白色洗腦是事實，國與國之間的競爭併吞也不是從兩百年前才開始。但中國文化又拿得出甚麼令人驕傲的文化意象，能日新又新（中國功夫倒是一樣）。萬里長城？羅盤針？造紙印刷術？哈哈哈哈，忍不住想哈哈大笑。

byebye(lajulan) 於 2009/11/28 04:23 回覆：

After a busy Thanksgiving Day, I am glad to see a message from you. I'll write more on this subject later but am impulsive to give you a quick response now.

Every line in this message makes my hart sink deeper and deeper. I certainly understand your thoughts and emotions for I saw my old self while reading. It is only recent 2-3 years that I have changed. I am also not surprise to read your engineer friend's blog. I was an engineer before and I know how an engineer perceives things that do not belong to engineering field.

我知道你(們)的這些意見，都是處於愛心，對自己的鄉土與文化恨鐵不成鋼。但是，做為工程師，受的是西式科學教育，我們對人文的理解，往往不夠深度及廣度。尤其是，近代社會被西洋價值觀所淹滅，我們只看到一個層面的事實；又由於我們的教育過度偏重科技，無法或根本不去理解存在有許多層面。

人文的東西和科學不一樣，不是用一步步推理而學得。當你能跳出自己所知所想的範圍時，所看到的會和在一個層面看到的很不一樣。現在雖然號稱是資訊氾濫的時代，但那些資訊，都是一個層面（感官，phenomenon）的理解。而人類曾經對＂人＂的了解，有更深更廣的理論及技術，東方人對這方面有很深的文化（有古埃及的承傳），而西方人還無知得很。

總之，希望你(們)能暫時的放下這些既定的想法，試著去多涉獵，可能會事情（歷史及未來的發展）有不同的理解。

讓我們以後再詳加討論。

BinH
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2009/11/23 10:23

Organize a group is not that hard, Create an organization website is just a piece of cake. The hard part is how to expand the organization while everybody is locked in this evil system. It is a joke having an organization with two persons pulling off this bullet train heading toward perish.

Yes, the hypocrisy makes me puke. What kind of system raises such a big group of stupid arrogant gangster people? It is still a puzzle to me.

This is the world of evil vs. evil. To Chinese culture, I am not sure it worths the praise as you said, One Single Thing that the US can learn from China is the experience of governing a big country for 2000+ years. As my impression growing up in 70s of Taiwan, I only know Chinese are good at abusing children, physically and mentally. Maybe you can tell us more that I do not know.

But more and more, I tend to think Democracy probably not fit Chinese soul that has been oppressed over 2000 years. It is like the active volcano waiting for any crack open for uncontrollable complete eruption.

byebye(lajulan) 於 2009/11/23 14:19 回覆：

當然,要改變多數人是不容易的,絕大部分的人是follower,歷史上只有少數幾個有智慧有能力敢面對挑戰的人,能改變歷史

'China has experience of governing a big country for 2000+ years" is simply a fact. 人類歷史上只有古埃及超過這個紀錄.最近幾年對歷史有興趣,才知道我們的歷史教育有多失敗,被西洋人所說的歷史牽著鼻子走.在我的書'另一種愛情對話'裡曾討論過,也包括討論西洋文化的hypocrisy,但是我還沒把這一部分整理出來貼在部落格,因為怕曲高合寡,徒惹人反感而已. 因為絕大部分的人,其所知所想的,受限於外來的資訊,而如今一般通行的資訊控制在西洋人的手裡,我能如何講得清楚? 我現在所能做的,只是一點一滴的拋出不同的觀點和思考模式.

在部落格“Praise Chinese culture”的目的,一方面是要提高黃種人的自信,因為我們一向聽到的自我批評比自我肯定還要多(被白色洗腦)，另一方面是事實。當我涉獵越多人文方面的知識時，我了解的越清楚。“growing up in 60-70s of Taiwan”我們是承傳断落、文化混亂一代。

什麼叫做"Democracy ",我還搞不清楚,是否真的有"Democracy "存在,我也很懷疑。在有限的範圍、特定的制度上,或許"Democracy”有可能發生,但從哲學及宗教的眼光來看,生命與宇宙的存在是不可能有Democracy

BinH
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2009/11/20 10:33

謝謝給的即時新聞分析。

“the Chinese—the Chinese do not want to be seen to be pressured. So if you pressure them, you’ll get a negative response. But they do listen.。。。。 if the Americans say it in the wrong way, they’ll get the wrong Chinese reaction.”

希望有一天，在美拒絕 bend down 的華人也有團體、有能力大聲和主流文化說不。

米國有 freedom of choice 嗎？甚至有 democracy 嗎？也許洛城大姐能在哪一篇文章談一談。我是打個大大的問號。

byebye(lajulan) 於 2009/11/21 00:07 回覆：

How about you organize this group "No Bend Down, No main Stream," I'll be the first to join.

I believe that there are "freedom of choice" for the reach and "democracy" for the powerful, but they are not for average people.

這個問題很難講清楚，因為這個文化太會做宣傳，太會把好聽的名詞叫得很響亮，對不清楚美國真正歷史的人，很難想像那種hypocrisy. 有機會再談吧

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2009/10/30 00:20
您好: 您的布落格內容很豐富，看了很開心，本來心情不太好，現在很不錯了，我的布落格比較單調一點，歡迎來訪鼓勵喔!

byebye(lajulan) 於 2009/10/30 08:05 回覆：

感謝來訪

對妳有幫助是我得榮幸

妳的部落格很重要,說出許多人的心聲

在這個不景氣的時候,大家要互相加油

只有心情是自己能把握的,其它的都會變化,也很難超之在我

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2009/10/27 14:44
嗨～來你家走走給你衝衝人氣!! 順便來宣傳一下我的拍賣網站 http://tw.user.bid.yahoo.com/tw/booth/a0800298988a 要來看看歐～有需要會便宜算給你啦^o^

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